Anyone else less than enthused about the changes to a subscription model?

This is getting ridiculous …

I only paid for the “one-off” fee for the black card a couple of months ago. My existing bank account covers all the insurance I need, why would I subscribe this with Curve again?

Ive hardly used any of the “Black” features” so I feel like I’ve just paid £50 for nothing (since it will take more than a couple years for me to break even with the legacy cash back programme). Also I upgraded during the time you said Amex support is coming, but I’m not even part of the beta test.

If this is what you “curve” are planning to do, then please could you refund the existing customers? Since you should give the existing customer the option to subscribe to the new service… instead of just force the customer to subscribe something that they don’t want, it is just not fair at all!

Or you’ll see your loyal customer base disappearing … The whole thing would just be like a scam … and I’ll certainly raise a complain and hopefully open a case with an external handler. I know £50 is not the end of the world, but it’s just principle, that you didn’t honour your offer.

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I’m just comparing the offers with other cards. And if i’m paying a subscription, i would need to find the best card that suits me. i would rather pay for revolut’s premium vs curve’s metal. Its cheaper and it provides cash back incentives. Don’t really see whats special with curve’s offering other than amex…but amex is accepted 90% of the major brands anyways. So i’m paying subscription to use amex for 10% of the shops? And the annual limit is low too on curve Not sure if the math works out . But just doesnt seem like it would.

For what its worth. Lets try for a refund, and if that aint happening. I’ll just use up the 6 months and cancel at the end.

Still think curve have an innovative idea though. Just not sure if it was costed right.

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One comment is why should I have paid a one off fee which was confirmed by you guys to get higher limits abroad (which i have not used yet) only to now get kicked off it. I might as well just have gone for a free one with that info. I kinda want the £50 returned in rewards then.

Are you doing a yearly fee cheaper like Revolut?

Is there Cashback? Mine has finished now

If you do 1% cashback on everything i can probably spend enough to get the fee back like revolut. However their’s drops to .1% in europe so it’s useless.

I just can’t see why we’re not allowed to stay on its not the fees its the fact i’ve been mislead. Would have gone for the blue card if i knew this was going to happen.

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And it’s funny that you can’t keep your black as is, but the original cashback program, not available since February 2018 is being carried over to the new subscriptions for people who had it

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Very well said Lyndon.

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This black thing has me seething. I would not have purchased it if i knew it would turn in to a subscription model.

I paid the £50 for the higher abroad spending/atm limits. I haven’t even been abroad yet. But as it said for life. They say go back to blue but that means I’ve spent £50 for 3 months worth of higher limits. I think i’m going to do chargeback/small claims. This is misleading people and the ones who have made them money. What did blue holders put in? Nothing but they stay the same. Old card holders should be able to keep what they paid for.

The higher limits abroad is all i wanted. If that had been £5 a month I would not have paid for it.

I call on curve to refund black customers their £50 and let them decide if they want the subscription model.

And as someone pointed out just upgrade for black for one month when you actually go abroad for the insurance and higher foreign atm limits.

Another company that doesn’t listen to its members

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Where was the reference to a benefit for life please?

This entire thing reminds me of this: https://blog.imaginecurve.com/introduction-of-new-technology-for-transaction-processing/
when Curve changed from same MCC for all transactions to dynamic MCC, everyone was going nuts and Curve said they learnt a lesson about including users more and that they received a big ****storm.

I think Curve has gone the wrong path with a subscription model.
First it was introduced on Thursday/Friday??, so most employees were on weekend leave while users were going nuts in the forum over the weekend.
Never announce such a big change at the end of the weekend, no matter if its in a closed beta group (there are always leaks) or by putting it on your website for everyone to see: https://www.curve.app/terms-compare

Instead of asking to charge for a few GBP and get users furious, Curve should chose a different path:

  • Allow current users to stay on the same pricing model or offer something that actually everyone can benefit, and not an insurance that most people already have for a cheaper price / a different card / or an insurance that actually covers all countries of residence and no deductible (again, here in Germany you get 1 for 7.40€ a year with 0€ deductible, so no reason to get any worse insurance for a higher cost,…)

  • offer high spending customers a free premium card
    MANY banks do that, even AmEx Gold waives the annual fee when you spend more than 10k€ /year
    Number 1 income for credit card issuers are transactions, the more there are and the higher the transaction, the more money Curve (or any bank) makes with a customer
    So it wouldn’t make sense to ask someone who puts 100k€ on his card / year to pay a 120GBP fee, you need to value your very good customers where you get the most money from

  • offer premium cards for commercial users
    With commercial cards the interbank fee limit does not apply (or its much higher) (in contrast to private cards) so Curve makes much more money with users having Commercial cards
    Therefore, Curve should give out more benefits to commercial users than private ones.

All in all, asking for a few GBP gets everyone very angry as you can see with that many replies in this topic. Instead Curve should explore more ways like I mentioned above to generate more money for high spenders and commercial users.
You need to value your best customers with free upgrades etc. instead of making them pay the same as everyone

So what does Curve get out of this in the end? So many users will change after free 6month period to blue, Curve will make 0GBP money with them for subscription fees, and even less money on transactions cause people will use again more their underlying cards.
Same with me, I have a 0% fx fee card that is fully for free, why should I not use that card then for all international transaction? If I spend more than 500GBP with Curve blue, I’d have to pay 2%.
With the free card I don’t get any miles, but paying 2% with Curve Blue, which equals to 2CPM (cents per mile) for each 1 earningmile is way too high.
I value miles at 1CPM, so anything that costs more than a 1% fee wouldnt make no sense to use Curve blue for international transactions.
What does that mean for Curve? Majority will move to free Blue, again no monthly fee income for Curve and WAY less transactions, so Curve will actually lose more money and many users.

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When they advertise a “one-off” fee, it’s reasonable to expect at least a few years out of it, it’s it?

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@Lucas, I have not heard about this. Are u referring to the AmEx preferred gold?

Is this true? I thought it was only the 1st year free unless you’re talking about a non UK Card as you mention €. :flushed:

At least in Germany you get the AmEx Gold for free when you spend more than 10k€ / year on the card. You just need to call before the next annaul fee hits your statement and they will waive it.
The AmEx plat fee of 600€ won’t be waived thou, no matter how many k€ you put on the card.

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The difference with Curve is that in general, they don’t make money from each transaction. If anything, they would lose money on the vast majority of transactions. Sure, they get a little bit in interchange fees (max 0.2% in Europe), but then they have to pay fees for charging it to the underlying card. So if you charge to a credit card, they’re getting 0.2%, and paying at least 0.3% (that 0.3% is only interchange, not including acquirer, network fees etc). They might make a profit on transactions with the commercial cards, but even that would be absolutely tiny.

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That would mean their business modell isn’t working in the first place.
The more new clients they get, and the higher the number of transactions gets that those clients make, the higher the need is for even more clients to join --> Ponzi scheme.

Also, that would mean that curve blue would also be blood sucking tier that makes them lose money. I’m sure they either breakeven or make minimal profits? If the business plan didnt work from the start, then yes, does sound like a ponzi scheme.

Wonder how the presentation to investors went.
(Yes. the curve blue would lose your money, but we believe the curve black £50 membership fees plus commercial card arbitrage earnings will more than make up for it)

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That’s true of most freemium services (eg. Dropbox) - there’s a free tier that costs money to run and attracts customers, but they hope that enough customers upgrade to a premium version to offset the cost.

Very few startups make a profit (or even a unit profit) initially. Personally, I’m glad that they’re going for a subscription model vs spamming users with ads, but I just wish the subscription actually provided some value :wink:

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True, the max they would only receive on consumer cards is very low and WireCard is going to charge them more than just the interbank fee, since WireCard also wants to make money. Usually Wirecard starts at around 2.8% for accepting cards as merchant if you’re under 1million€ / year. So lets assume Curve has a very good deal with WireCard and they would only have to pay 1.0% (I think the lowest you can actually go without having your own license is 0.5% which is what Expedia Group gets), Curve would pay 1% on all transaction and only receive 0.2% for consumer cards?
Meaning they lose at least 0.8% with each transaction for Curce consumer cards and underlying consumer cards?
Even higher loss if underlying card is commercial card then!

If that is the case thats the reason why the limits are so low, cause Curve has to pay for every transaction we make! But that wouldn’t sound sustainable at all, no matter how high the monthly fees are.

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You have made excellent points, and we’ve listened.

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Looks like they listened to us…

We listened, and we want you to know that this option will now be available to you.

Great! What are my choices?

  • Without doing anything, you will still have 6 months to trial the new benefits of Curve Black. We are convinced that you will love them!
  • If you are still not convinced after the 6 months’ trial, you will be able to keep your current “original” Black tier with its benefit of unlimited fee-free foreign exchange, without paying any monthly subscriptions. Please note that the Curve “original” Black tier will not have any Amex free top-up allowance or insurance benefits, as these are only being launched as part of the new Curve Black benefits. This tier will not be available to new Curve customers.
  • For a limited period of time, you will also still have the choice of upgrading to Curve Metal and get 4 months for free, after you pay the first instalment. (To get this discount, upgrade to Curve Metal in your app now). Please note: after the upgrade to Curve Metal, you will not be able to revert to the “original” Black tier benefits.

While I’m very happy Curve has listened, and completely understand the fee with Amex support. It’s a shame we can’t try Metal and downgrade.

But glad they listened and we can be ‘grandfathered’ in on our current tier.