Creation (IHG, Marriott) blocking all Curve transactions

I don’t really understand your argument.

I’d suggest most Curve customers wouldn’t be paying fees to Creation even if Curve didn’t exist, because if they’re sensible enough to use Curve they’re sensible enough to find a different credit card that doesn’t charge forex fees…they’re not exactly difficult to find!

Creation are a tiny card provider. They only advertise one product to new customers now… I’d be surprised if any of the big players were really that fussed - they still get their interchange/transaction fees and interest which I imagine is the bulk of their income. The big banks get to charge the merchant bank fees on the retailer side too, so any payment by card is a win for them whoever’s card it is.

Here we go again. Someone really needs to do their homework on this thread.

Creation are owned by Bnp Paribas, and although they are a small player in the UK credit card market, they are one of the largest players in the High Street Retail personal finance market. All finance deals at DFS, Dreams and SCS and other retail giants are funded by Creation Financial Services.

In fact Creation offer £2bn in credit lines to half a million customers.

Why is this a problem to Curve? Because the Creation/IHG credit cards were one of the most popular cards to link Curve to…unfortunately in many instances for the wrong reasons and reports of people using Curve to fund NS&I accounts with thousands per week just to manufacturer hotel points. Curve let everyone down by doing no or very little policing of the problem.

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I know they are a reasonably big lender in retail finance, but we are talking about credit cards. A totally different marketplace….very few lenders successfully straddle both markets that I can think of.

I’m not stupid, I know exactly who creation are and I know who BNP Paribas are.

I’m interested…where is your evidence for the claims you’re making? I’d suggest very few of Curve’s customers can be bothered with faffing around with such activities just to get some IHG points.

In any case, why should Creation even care about that? Unless they’ve screwed up their finances and are losing money on every transaction on the one remaining credit card in their lineup, they still get their money….in fact they get more money than they would otherwise because they’d never have those transactions otherwise. The only reason I can see them being upset about it is because those people doing it are probably sensible enough not to carry a balance and pay interest on the cards.

If it was really only about that, why not just block NS&I transactions via Curve. Why block the whole lot, and annoy everyone rather than just a few people? They could easily just block the NS&I transactions. They can block Klarna…

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NS&I is just one example of many…

Exactly. I believe that NS&I uses an unusual MCC, which would be easy to block.

Creation is not getting my Curve transactions. Creation is getting non-GBP transaction flow that it would not otherwise have got. The whopping FX fee charged by Creation is enough to deter informed consumers from using Creation cards for direct non-GBP transactions. Informed consumers instead use Revolut, Halifax Clarity, Santander Zero or Curve for their non-GBP transactions. So your argument about Creation losing out on FX fees holds no water.

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@CrisB - how can you use Apple Pay with a Creation card when Creation doesn’t support Apple Pay? The only way to do this is by fronting the Creation card with Curve.

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And again I’m not sure you get my point. I don’t even use my card for cash recycling, I don’t really care if they block it or not.

I’m just pointing out that realistically the number of people using their card for cash recycling is not going to be big - and asking why you think that Creation would really care that much about it to throw away a whole bunch of their customers, most of whom probably aren’t doing it?

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I complained today to Creation. The reason that the Creation representative read out suggested that this is a temporary suspension while Creation investigates usage of its cards via Curve. Therefore I believe that Creation might lift the suspension but block specific MCCs via Curve, and might even block debit card payments of one’s Creation credit card bill via Curve BINs.

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Very interesting.

When I called about this, I was told that Creation were reviewing Curve’s policies in regards to protections under the Consumer Credit Act to make sure that they were satisfied with the protections Curve had in place.

Clearly Creation aren’t completely sure why they’re doing what they’re doing!

Here’s an email from Creation about why…

“Thanks for your email regarding your recent Curve transactions.
At this time are unable to accept Curve transactions or National Savings and Investments transactions.
We understand that some of our Creation credit card customers link their Creation card to their Curve card. We’ve taken the decision to stop accepting Creation credit card transactions made via the Curve card whilst we undertake a review of the linkage.
As a responsible lender it’s important that we understand how the Curve platform is being used and any impact that may have on the Creation Card and the normal consumer protection provided under the Consumer Credit Act. Once the review is completed there will be further communication on the ability to reinstate transactions made via the Curve card or otherwise.”

Piecing it all together, it seems like Creation might have had a few people expect Section 75 protection from them for transactions through Curve.

Doesn’t make any sense though. I think Curve make it reasonably clear that you don’t get that from your underlying card. And if that is the real reason, then why haven’t Creation blocked PayPal transactions as well? They are in the same position as intermediary…

And if that is the reason, why do Creation feel the need to completely stop approving any and all transactions - and why couldn’t they simply tell us that? And why did they have to do it instantly rather than giving us reasonable notice?

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That’s what crypto.com did a year ago when they stopped people using Curve for a few days. After a quick review of a couple of days Curve was reinstated but at the same time they also stopped a big bunch of transaction types from receiving any cashback such as pay at pump and any household bills or government related charges like council tax.

So in effect you can use your card for most transactions but you won’t receive any benefits.

If anything isn’t that a good thing for Creation? They don’t have to pay out section 75 claims.

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You are correct they are going for sure, this is bitter & petty behaviour.

What is far more concerning is the imploding action of IHG and their couldn’t care attitude to the customer!

Well exactly yes. I’m struggling to understand what Creation have a problem with that’s so massive they can justify annoying so many people!

How does one make a complaint to MasterCard about Creation? I have found no obvious way to do this on the MasterCard web site. The site steers consumers towards contacting their card issuer.

Has there been any update on this from Curve? If credit card companies are going to start blocking curve it renders the product a bit useless :frowning_face:

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I would like to see a reply from Curve too.

That said I wouldn’t take Creation’s actions as indicative of the rest of the industry. They have always been quite weird!

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Not seen anything yet from Curve. Hopefully they will be able to resolve the issue with Creation. Like you say if other card companies start following suit then we’ll lose Curve altogether :relieved: