Unexplained email about transactions at NS&I

I still, after a week, have had no acknowledgement of the bank statements etc that I sent in as per the request for money laundering/cash recycling. I get the drift that because I did use Curve to buy some Premium Bonds even though I know I’m 100% not guilty of withdrawing and ‘rinse and repeat’ I’m presumed guilty? I think it’s common courtesy to acknowledge receipt of what is (to me and anyone involved in identity theft) rather sensitive data. I just lose more and more faith in what was once a great product. Customer service should be a simple thing to fix.

Probably related to this, now fronted transactions are limited to 10,000 per month.

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Although further down it seems to say that NS&I are still OK they’re just Curve Fronted transactions? :face_with_monocle:

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Suspect the revised T&Cs also contain olive branches to Creation to get them authorizing Curve transactions again (and also preventing other issuers from following their lead?).

Would be fascinated to see if people are now able to make these transactions again. As from what I’d read on some other sites, all Creation / NS&I transactions through Curve were being blocked.

@Textuality Transactions via Curve linked to a Creation Credit Card are still blocked. I just used mine in Morrisons and it went to my backup card as Creation declined the transaction.

For me, my curve card is now redundant as I only used it linked to my Creation so if they are blocking transactions then Curve is pointless.

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That’s a real shame, Sorry to hear your troubles with creation. I personally don’t use them, but, there are many other credit cards out there to suit every budget and personal circumstances. Maybe its time for a change… Good luck with what ever you choose to do.

NS&I indeed still seems to be ok, but is treated now as Fronted transaction. But relating to NS&I transactions there is also an important update in the wording of the fair use policy about what amounts to cash recycling and further examples have been provided to help one understand what is not allowed.

Any other equivalent usage which the Curve Compliance Team believes aims to achieve the same outcome is also not allowed, including but not limited to:

  • the use of money transfer services,
  • topping up savings accounts,
  • transferring cash between payment accounts using Curve
  • moving money from a credit card into an investment account using Curve and then moving it through another payment account back onto a credit card account to start the whole round trip again to gain points or another financial advantage

Such behaviour may result in your Curve account being blocked or cancelled. See Curve Terms of Use for further information.

Especially the last bullet point seems to be formulated to counter certain behaviour of users who talk about MS when meaning this behaviour, about Ernie instead of NS&I and about Bendy when meaning Curve.

It is very vague.

I use the Curve fronted to buy Premium Bonds each month, which stay invested and are not cashed out. Is this allowed? Or is this deemeed recycling?
I still can not believe a product that is trying to scale to this size does not have any proper customer service contacts

I’d be more concerned about your underlying card closing your account like what Creation has just done today for anyone that has ever used Curve: Creation cancel all credit cards used with a Curve Card

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You do not have to provide any information unless there is an ‘official’ case of fraud and then it would not be Curve you send it to.

This is nothing but Curve bullying its customers and scaremongering and then you giving them consent to see your financials. I would go as far as to say its criminal act of negligence from Curve, and what Curve has done here to you and others.

It is the responsibility of Curve a responsible provider as the host not the other way round. As such any fraud activities have to be launched by Curve through the legal means of Law. I am disgusted to read these issues people are having and Curve think they can steal information about a policy that in effect is their own doing because they made a huge self mistake and now try to accuse its members. Utter rubbish and beyond low.

I would advise you go contact curve and ask or all information they have on you to be supplied to you, further and under GDPR they delete all information you have supplied other than when you consented when you applied for the Curved service. Make sure they comply as they are lawfully bound to have to.

If Curve still try to bully you then off to the to the regulator’s you go and that not only means potential huge fines to Curve but a whole lot more damage they do not want etc.

These are my initial thoughts. Also I am considering leaving such a draconian business model now after the non stop tragic imploding and bullying of its members and the manner they do not apologise for any of their dire and blatant course of actions. As for the constant changes to the Terms is a sign of a bad company in short……

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And likewise Curve does not have to continue providing you with a service. It might choose to discontinue providing you with a service if you don’t supply the information.

Curve has regulatory responsibilities, particularly regarding AML and KYC.

You are referencing Banking regs which in principle you are correct. Except Curve is not a regulated Bank or is a Bank, completely different KYC reference?

They do have AML responsibilities but they can only forward details of suspicious activity not police it. As for the their right to terminate that is within the agreement made on the accepted terms.

Curve does have to follow the FCA and meet its objectives but they cannot do what they are or have suggested in this situation directly themselves.

See the FCA handbook FCG 3, specifically regarding establishing the source of funds.

I just want to know if I am allowed to pay a credit card with another credit using curve fronted!

Allowed by who? My understanding is this - (I don’t pay for Metal, nor have I any interest in paying the fronted fee. I did do this for reward-maximisation purposes before the fronted fee came in).

Curve allow it if your underlying card issuers don’t see it as a breach of their terms (see the fair use policy above). Buck passed…

Of course your CC’s terms were probably written before Curve was created, or at least without it being considered. So your CC terms won’t say explicitly 'You may not use debit fronted credit (eg Curve) to make payments". Exact readings of specific small print may lead you to believe this is/isn’t allowed.

If you go and ask them if they are okay with it and the person you ask understands the question, it’s going to set off alarm bells. Lenders have a duty to make sure you only borrow what you can afford to repay. If you’re not repaying, but rather moving debt around they should rightly panic.

Of course you might be bouncing things through several rewards credit cards just to max out your rewards, and ultimately have no real debt by paying the balance off at the end of the chain. Go ask creation what they thought of that…

Hmm along my thinking. Ultimately I am debating if it’s worth the reward points, as it certainly isn’t worth having any issues with my credit card providers!

Curve have stepped up the approach, and blocked cards pending a resolution of their investigation and consideration of the documents they have requested (to which they have no entitlement). Of course the consideration of documents is in the new support backlog - and seemingly longer if you dare to challenge their “request” for personal data.

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Should not demand all that hassle.Think I would have ditched curve. There’s plenty of other cards/banks to choose from.

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A few parting thoughts:

Despite Fronted explicitly existing to “front” credit card transactions where debit cards are only accepted I have been blocked and they’ve asked for 18 months of credit card statements, bank etc. I have refused. Now I am being ignored asking for a fee refund.

“Pay your UK taxes or credit card bills with another credit card” which is obviously agains the rules of literally every credit card in the land. Yet Curve preach they need to ensure you’re compliant with the credit cards you possess. Please Curve, can we have a list of credit card firms who are happy for credit card bills to be paid off with other credit cards? If you’re sued, you’re gonna have to come up with it so how about you provide it to us all now?

What is the purpose of Curve metal? The insurance benefits are weak, lounge access is worthless and cheaper via other methods, gadget insurance is useless if you buy new phones. Cashback is better on cards directly, like Amex Offers, Barclaycard Cashback. And priority support? Don’t make me laugh.

There’s few rewards credit cards left on the market but what are left are actually making it better, for example Virgin don’t charge FX in various currencies.

Plus, Curve don’t help with the real player, Amex. We all remember what happened there.

For those grandfathered on Barclaycard, (Creation LOL) if they get rid of FX, when why bother with Curve when the functions they advertise such as Fronted are actually not really allowed. Curve makes things more complicated, like for refunds.

On Barclays, you could top-up Revolut with various cards and pay off immediately to generate the points, no interest, and then use Revolut’s far better FX rates vs Curve.

You can’t withdraw very much cash on Curve (because again, cash recycling risks and why on earth withdraw on Curve to a debit when its free and has no weekend fees and way more than a measly £600 fee-free on Curve vs Starling?). A Starling debit card would be such as good for the few points you will earn to Front a credit card with Curve and then face being shut down because you use Curve the way it was intended withdrawing off a credit card, which actually, is probably a breach of terms but then somehow it isn’t.

With Apple Pay (I know, Creation…) the whole “one card” together thing that Curve was all about is useless, because its faster to switch the card in Apple Pay than it is in the App. And who really uses their Metal card, or indeed, cares about it being Metal? The other week I had to use my Amex Plat and I genuinely had forgotten the PIN because I use the physical card so rarely.

I’ve supported Curve since the beginning. I didn’t just put tens of thousands through NS&I. I have used Curve for all my foreign spend. Curve know time is running out, look at Monzo and what you get for their silly monthly fees. They’re desperately trying to show they have a USP. Who on Earth would use Curve Flex? Does it excite anyone?

Let’s be honest. No. Just another overpriced short-term credit

I’ve felt for a long time that Curve are looking for the sort of customer that doesn’t exist. Pays for Metal, but barely uses the card, and funds it using a debit card, never withdraws cash on a credit card. Essentially he/she uses the card very little, especially so if its a personal vs corporate because of the costs of the interchange fee. Doesn’t need to communicate on chat and doesn’t refund anything. Plus, he/she’s living pay check to pay check so he needs to use Curve Flex. Oh and he/she owns a cheap smartphone and feels like paying £25 for an airport contract lounge is great value, meaning they don’t travel a lot and have airline status which comes back to them paying the £150 fee but not using the card too much.

Plus, he/she has plenty of friends to refer to Curve who are all in the same boat and they all love to use their card vs mobile phone payments.

Have I got the profile right? :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

If they don’t refund my fee since blocking, I’ll have to chargeback or MCOL- and then they can really explain how I broke their rules of a product designed to break the rules.

Thanks Curve, its been fun.

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