Who's already onboard the Crypto train? 🚂

The Bitcoin conference is starting in Miami soon and I’m curious to know how many crypto users we have already on the Community and what it is that draws you to using cryptocurrencies?

Is it the ability to invest meaningfully, the decentralisation of money, the lower fees and 24 hour cryptocurrency market or something completely different?

if you have a take then I want to hear it!

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The only reason I ever dabbled in crypto is for the purposes of investment.

The use of crypto as an actual currency is extremely terrible if you want to adhere yourself to the legality of most countries, as every single transaction involves a taxable event and would make your yearly tax declaration hell on Earth, especially if those transactions aren’t automatically declared for you through an arrangement with your national tax agency.

So I pretty much only hold crypto to reap staking rewards (basically dividends, which is why I think comparing cryptoassets to stocks is more apt than to currency) and I stay away from everything that involves the “currency” part of the word.

I think decentralization is not a real thing in crypto world - even with DeFi, most people still use exchanges exclusively, and you still must if you want to realize your gains. And crypto has a lot higher fees that most other payments/investments: for payments, SEPA transactions in Europe are free in most countries, card-based payments have very low fees (none to the consumer), and the retail investor revolution has spawned a bunch of apps and services to invest in the stock market and other traditional investments with much, much lower fees than what crypto offers in most cases.

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I’m not aboard the runaway train.

In the short term I think cryptocurrency is great for drug lords and other folk wanting to hide their money and in the medium term it’s good for snake oil salespeople and in the long term we’ll ALL have to pay when it collapses. It has all the hallmarks of Bernie Madoff on steroids.

It’s a pyramid scheme that Mr Ponzi would have been proud of.

I could be wrong.

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Hey @EU and @Nelthorim, it’s interesting to hear that you’re anti-cryptocurrency!

Despite something around 1-in-5 UK residents having invested in cryptocurrency, I still usually hear crypto being discussed as an investment gimmick in the UK rather than as a legitimate payment method.

It’s good to see that the environmental impact of crypto mining seems to be becoming more sustainable but it is concerning that some of the big names in cryptocurrency still use high-waste methods to create their currency.

I’m eager to hear more perspectives on this though since my personal experience with crypto is quite limited!

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71% of Brits still say they have no intention of ever buying cryptocurrency” -there’s lots of statistics but I simply do not believe 1 in 5 UK adults have owned or own cryptocurrency.

I think -just like Curve- another method of payment is most welcomed by me. The problem is though -and this is my impression looking at those I’ve seen talking it up- is it’s a gamble. Buying gold is also a gamble but I know which I’d prefer.

I think the only good news for a nay-sayer like me is there is no central bank or government which will bail out the chronic gambling.

China has now banned crypto and I don’t know if they’re smart and know it’s a threat to their financial systems or a threat to their dictatorship.

I’m sure we’ll have the answer soon.

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Take a guess… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I have some crypto - originally purchased a few years ago purely as a speculative buy and hold investment/gamble. Gains have outperformed my traditional stock and shares investments in this period (although purchase wasn’t long enough ago for the gains to be life changing). I view the capital gains to date as pure good fortune. I don’t have any strong conviction that crypto brings improvements to the traditional financial system.

In the last year or two I’ve started using some platforms to earn yield from my crypto. As others are willing to pay me to borrow my crypto I now view it a bit more as a genuine investment than I previously did.

Have also tried using a cryptoback payment card (crypto.com). You receive a crypto deposit into your account as a reward following every single purchase. Similar to what @Nelthorim mentioned earlier, this is a tax nightmare. Whilst cryptoback doesn’t create a taxable event it does create an event you need to track to be able to calculate your cost basis when you do later dispose of some crypto. For this reason, and also price volatility of the crypto rewards I’ve given up using it for now. I’d want to find a card which paid out crypto rewards once per month (instead of after every transaction) to consider using one again.

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Glad to see the responses here and somewhat disappointed as an investor that Curve spent money (screenshot says sponsored, so I’m assuming it was paid) to advertise at that “conference”.

Calling cryptocurrency (I hate how the word “crypto” now means this scam instead of cryptography that’s a great field of study in CS) a gamble doesn’t go far enough IMO. Unlike traditional gambling against a regulated bookmaker, this involves actively trying to fleece later entrants until the system runs out of greater fools.

All the points mentioned in the OP are common sound-bites but myths. People who’d like to know more should watch this excellent video by Folding Ideas. If you prefer to read instead, there are references in the description.

I have a very different opinion to those posted so far. I am an investor in cryptocurrencies and an active member of a community DAO. I believe the potential of cutting the middle-man through the use of smart contracts is truly revolutionary and that DeFi will put money back in the pockets of people betrayed by the traditional banking system. I welcome the fact that Curve is open to new form of finance and trying to find its place in this dimension.

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As an Italian you may be familiar with Mr Ponzi Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia and the term ‘Ponzi scheme’.

On the face of it (although I’ve not been watching much about these essentially fake currencies the last couple of years) crypto is a Ponzi scheme in every way.

Now, I’m not saying there’s not some good ideas behind virtual (ie it doesn’t exist anywhere) currencies but my concern from what I’ve seen is it’s a Ponzi scheme and more worringly people who support it are happy to push it like crack cocaine to friends and relatives.

As for the China question banning it I think the answer is both (ie loss of dictatorial control and potential damage to their financial system).

For now virtual currency is gambling but so is all currency trading we just need to make sure that those who lose get no support from the rest of the tax payers or our central baking systems.

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I’m familiar with the concept of Ponzi’s or pyramidal scheme

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Large volume of curve customers are crypto.com users including myself. In crypto for 5 years. It’s served me well.

Mainstream about catching on, but for the majority of people on these kind of boards you’ll find disinformation and uneducated extreme viewpoints, if you are interested in dabbling there are some good educated communities on Reddit that can provide challenges to any strategy or thinking you have.

6.1% of the UK own crypto. We have less than half the average penetration of the rest of the world. I’m looking forward to mass adoption.

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6.1% of the UK own crypto

I would be interested in their demographics, I suspect ownership would align with those who have money that they can risk (gamble) who are in the top 10% of earners.

You only have to look at the way the Uber Rich (or should that be Tesla Rich) can manipulate the market to their own gain,

guessing it’s not too different than people who invest in stock markets. you don’t have to be uber rich to pick up some TGBP, dump it into crypto.com, and get 10% on it, and have it pegged against the GBP. Or, do a bank transfer to nexo with your GBP, and have them give you 8% yield on the resulting GBPx that you can withdraw at any time. Latter example is more FIAT but with a crypto fintech, so similar boat.

re: crypto.com, if you are genuinly interested I’m happy to show you how to use bittytax for free to do all your calculations. Takes me about 6 minutes end to end to draw up the numbers for capital gains tax, which I only have to report because i’m over the threshold - but statistically most won’t be. In my case it was worth the 6 mins for the £3000 worth of CRO received in the just finished tax year - some of which was sold and banked, the rest stuck into DEFI currently at 12.1% yield.

I am intrigued. If everyone can make these gains, who is funding them?

That’s where due diligence comes in. The sustainable guys that pass audits and have industry certifications will be offering loan products at 15% or making ridiculous revenue from exchanges. For the customers using those, it’s a bargain to legally avoid taxes far greater than that.

I’d definitely avoid the 300% rates and shitcoins and memecoins. They give crypto a bad name and are used as a generalisation by the majority whose opinions you see in threads like these.

Well, that’s where Mr Ponzi comes into play Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia

Thanks for offer but I already use crypto tax software (although not bittytax). It takes me far longer than 6 minutes though. Most of the time is spent checking the software has properly auto-tagged transactions, and then fixing when it hasn’t. I haven’t tried bittytax though - I’ll take a look at some point.

The bigger picture though is a financial system where every single payment is tax relevant is undesirable and will prevent mass adoption in relation to payments.

I assume you’ve been collecting CRO cryptoback for a while and so benefited from big price gains in CRO over the last 12 months, inflating the value of the cryptoback received. This is a double edged sword though. If CRO falls over prolonged period, the fiat value of cryptoback received in that period could be worse than non-crypto cashback/points rewards.

on the 2nd point - yes, valid - that’s based on current value of CRO (which is actually down since jan). But - an easy solution here is selling the CRO on a weekly basis and locking in the gains. Yes yes, that’s a taxable event etc., but that ultimately is 52 rows in an excel sheet that bittytax processes without even needing double checking - the 6 mins still holds true.

bittytax assumes you can do a bit of command line and follow the well documented instructions to run the python script - it’s not as easy as koinly’s web UI but I’d be paying for the pro 10,000+ plan on koinly if I were using it, and the output gives you all the numbers you need for your tax submissions.