Wirecard - Curve Relationship?

The problem is that a great portion of all Curve cards currently in use are Wirecard issued. There’s a substantial risk of Wirecard going into bankruptcy during the weekend or at the start of next week as their line of credit is greatly endangered. Yes, they have operations working, but their credit supply is in imminent danger. We are also at risk of Mastercard stepping in.

Now for Curve this is thankfully a smaller issue than e.g. one year ago, but it means a very large card replacement project would possibly have to be done ASAP and cards could stop working very soon, depending on how any Wirecard default would be executed in practical terms.

So I would be very cautious regarding any old Wirecard issued Curve cards for the near future, until one has a card that isn’t their.

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I received my Curve Metal card today - it says Wirecard on the back…

Does Curve ever get involved in this forum? Explanation would be great.

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Taken the current state of affairs, based on early morning news, I wouldn’t expect any positive outcome on Monday or Tuesday. I would advice strongly to keep another card with you at the time being, taken that any Wirecard insolvency can’t be prolonged under German law. Now it’s unclear how quick and to which extense Wirecard issued cards would stop working, if it all comes down now. However it’s obvious that the risk is currently very substantial and it’s not related to are the cards debit or credit cards. If the card intermediator (the issuer is kind of the intermediator between you, Curve and Mastercard) goes out of business, so does their paycards.

Now Curve should’ve gone out with an e-mail to all customers proactively already ages ago, as this situation escalated, but they haven’t. Well, that’s probably what one could expect from them. The usual silence after the hype of 2019.

I think if Wirecard goes bust the administrators / MasterCard would do absolutely everything possible to keep card processing up and running to avoid negative impact to millions of card users and if it is going to affect us, I am sure Curve will let us know…

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I don’t think Wirecard will go bankrupt or stopping their services soon.
They are one of the biggest Financial Institution.
They have more than thousands of merchants behind them and switching from a good working system to a new unknown system is most likely the death for some merchants.

To be fair to them, it may be that the situation is not clear, or that they are working to avoid any issues, i’d rather they did that than send us an email that may or may not say anything concrete. I’ve a number of other cards in my wallet issued from Wirecard also, and i’ve heard nothing from any of those companies either tbh.

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Personally i cant see wirecard surving this in it’s current form, they were one of the largest companies of their type, until last week.

Companies rarely get away with ‘cooking the books’ and the ones that do are the ones that come out screaming about it themselves, not the ones that take legal action against newspapers etc and make out that nothing is wrong, then have to admit that billions of euro’s of cash holdings are complete figments, and if some of the earlier stories are true it is likely that billions of euros of sales numbers are also completely false.

The parts of the company worth saving will most likely be sold, or spun off into a new entity i’d have thought!

Wirecard is still one of the biggest financial institution.
We will see in the next few coming weeks if they can survive or not.

I think you’re coming to a lot of conclusions very early. Calm down and let it play out - Curve and all of Wirecard’s other customers are I’m sure working on plans if needs be, and I’m sure MasterCard and Visa and the like will be too.

You’re also making extrapolations that are not necessarily correct. Stick to what can be proven with the evidence promoted and don’t jump to conclusions. There isn’t anything you can do to influence the situation, so sometimes it’s best to just not comment on it. Doing so has a tendency to distract from a resolution.

It seems extremely unlikely to me that all operations will immediately cease - I think the banking and governmental systems of the world are a little more sensible than that. Maybe it will go like that, maybe not, but as nobody here is party to any of the discussions it doesn’t seem productive to start worrying about it now given the likely effect for most of us will just be a brief inconvenience whilst Curve ramps up it’s own card issuing.

I personally struggle to see many Curve customers being significantly long term disadvantaged if Wirecard were to cease trading. Perhaps those of other Wirecard customers, maybe, but that’s not what we’re discussing here.

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Andy surely I’m using the forum for it’s intended purpose? For us to have a dialog, I’m not of the opinion that anyone on here is going to take any action, so we wont be distracting anyone from a resolution.

Originally i just posed the question would wirecard going bust affect curve, and it looks like that is unlikely, given that curve can now issue off its own back, they could in theory and likely backed by mastercard simply assume all of the cards in circulation if necessary i guess.

I’m also fairly confident that now with the evidence presented that its fair enough to conclude that some sort of fraudulent activity has been going on here, again it doesnt affect curve directly, but it’s interesting to see that after many red flags having been raised over the last few years that a company of this size was able to behave in a manner such as this.

I did have some cash invested in wirecard, but cashed out a couple of years back, not because i thought anything was amiss just because i needed it to buy a new house :rofl:

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The problem is that most, if not all, current Curve cards are Wirecard issued. Curve issuing their own ones still hasn’t materialised AFAIK and it’s only expected to happen around end of June. However it’s possible it won’t happen by then, taken how everything has been going slower than has been taunted.

As for raising some serious remarks regarding Wirecard: they’re all warranted. Period. We’re talking about a massive amount of funds vanishing in an “Enronesque” style. Wirecard’s credit rating has been lowered to the second lowest rating. It’s certainly reason enough for any Curve user to recognise the situation may cause issues, if things escalate quick for Wirecard and their operations are affected. Nobody has said that all operations would cease, however that too is fully possible.

So for the time being: just be aware of the circumstances and that Wirecard is at a real risk of becoming insolvent soon due to a credit crunch. It doesn’t matter is there any working business units in the company or not. That’s something for a liquidation to handle, but that’s afterwards, if they file for bankrupcy.

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Yes that’s fair enough. I was primarily referring to your suggestions of further fraud. I can’t find any evidence yet that responsibility has yet been placed for the current issue, so it’s quite a big step to suggest that there is more than what has already been announced at this stage.

No, it isn’t. Not anymore. Nor will it be anytime soon.

Its market cap has been right-sized through this episode. Their loans will probably be called in at the end of the month giving it 8 more days before it becomes insolvent. Its profit was largely based on the accounts it has now declared fictitious. It’s loans / credit ratings / dividends and shareprice were all based on fake information. The credit agencies have already delisted it, and the CEO of one of it’s biggest lenders (hardly a regulatory poster child in its own right) has today said it is a shameful reflection on the German regulatory environment.

I don’t think you are looking hard enough, though that’s on the assumption that “what’s been announced” means by Wirecard. This article gives a brief overview of some of the accusations though you can also just Google Dan McCrum + Wirecard. https://www.marketscreener.com/WIRECARD-AG-454356/news/Wirecard-Attackers-Vindicated-30803834/

None of this is to suggest Curve is any kind of trouble despite cards still being issued by Wirecard - just to say you shouldn’t underplay the seriousness of what Wirecard has done (by their own admission today). Wirecard and BaFin threatened investigative journalists, market researchers and short sellers with lawsuits and criminal prosecution (i.e. Jail). It was this behaviour that allowed them to fake-it for years at a significant cost to any messenger or investor who believed in honest markets.

I’ll eat my hat if they survive the summer - the lawsuits that will follow will be unending. Short sellers priced out of positions, by fraud. Buy and Hold investors wiped out, by fraud. And that’s before you think about those threatened with jail.

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i will remember you if they make it.

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Happy to be held to it :-).

This isn’t banks in 2008. This Edit is more like Enron or /Edit any company that has said they are sitting on piles of cash when they aren’t.

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Any? So where is money from Curve Card balance?

Oh I forgot about that…I guess there might be some small change from the people who still use Curve Send hanging around somewhere I suppose :thinking:

I wonder how the cashback is treated. I’d have thought it would be treated the same as store credit - i.e. not actually customer money, just the option to redeem.

In any case Curve do have an eMoney licence with the FCA, so I would have thought that would be okay too.

I think that’s why you have points on curve card, not real currency

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@city_tom has rightly understood the context of the issues at hand with Wirecard. It’s about falsified finances for at least one fiscal year, possibly going back even further than that. Money has been lost into a black hole and the creditors of Wirecard are very likely going to pull the plug - if not all, then some. This has nothing to do with Lehman. This is a similar situation to Enron.

For the sake of clarity: none of my comments are to suggest that Curve has a direct, in-house issue. It’s however important that someone underlines the risks at hand for Curve end-users. And I won’t get started about us investors.

The problem is that the box office of your show might be shut and nobody will be able to attend the show. To get a new Curve card would become impossible for a while, as long as Curve doesn’t issue its own cards. It’s all lost business and a PR disaster. Or current cards may cease being accepted or transactional issues arise. That’s also a big financial risk. It’s not a clear cut situation, except for the fact that it’s perilous to any Wirecard associated companies, if their payment methods cease to work or you can’t issue new ones.

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Wirecard Update