Wirecard - Curve Relationship?

Wirecard is still one of the biggest financial institution.
We will see in the next few coming weeks if they can survive or not.

I think you’re coming to a lot of conclusions very early. Calm down and let it play out - Curve and all of Wirecard’s other customers are I’m sure working on plans if needs be, and I’m sure MasterCard and Visa and the like will be too.

You’re also making extrapolations that are not necessarily correct. Stick to what can be proven with the evidence promoted and don’t jump to conclusions. There isn’t anything you can do to influence the situation, so sometimes it’s best to just not comment on it. Doing so has a tendency to distract from a resolution.

It seems extremely unlikely to me that all operations will immediately cease - I think the banking and governmental systems of the world are a little more sensible than that. Maybe it will go like that, maybe not, but as nobody here is party to any of the discussions it doesn’t seem productive to start worrying about it now given the likely effect for most of us will just be a brief inconvenience whilst Curve ramps up it’s own card issuing.

I personally struggle to see many Curve customers being significantly long term disadvantaged if Wirecard were to cease trading. Perhaps those of other Wirecard customers, maybe, but that’s not what we’re discussing here.

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Andy surely I’m using the forum for it’s intended purpose? For us to have a dialog, I’m not of the opinion that anyone on here is going to take any action, so we wont be distracting anyone from a resolution.

Originally i just posed the question would wirecard going bust affect curve, and it looks like that is unlikely, given that curve can now issue off its own back, they could in theory and likely backed by mastercard simply assume all of the cards in circulation if necessary i guess.

I’m also fairly confident that now with the evidence presented that its fair enough to conclude that some sort of fraudulent activity has been going on here, again it doesnt affect curve directly, but it’s interesting to see that after many red flags having been raised over the last few years that a company of this size was able to behave in a manner such as this.

I did have some cash invested in wirecard, but cashed out a couple of years back, not because i thought anything was amiss just because i needed it to buy a new house :rofl:

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The problem is that most, if not all, current Curve cards are Wirecard issued. Curve issuing their own ones still hasn’t materialised AFAIK and it’s only expected to happen around end of June. However it’s possible it won’t happen by then, taken how everything has been going slower than has been taunted.

As for raising some serious remarks regarding Wirecard: they’re all warranted. Period. We’re talking about a massive amount of funds vanishing in an “Enronesque” style. Wirecard’s credit rating has been lowered to the second lowest rating. It’s certainly reason enough for any Curve user to recognise the situation may cause issues, if things escalate quick for Wirecard and their operations are affected. Nobody has said that all operations would cease, however that too is fully possible.

So for the time being: just be aware of the circumstances and that Wirecard is at a real risk of becoming insolvent soon due to a credit crunch. It doesn’t matter is there any working business units in the company or not. That’s something for a liquidation to handle, but that’s afterwards, if they file for bankrupcy.

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Yes that’s fair enough. I was primarily referring to your suggestions of further fraud. I can’t find any evidence yet that responsibility has yet been placed for the current issue, so it’s quite a big step to suggest that there is more than what has already been announced at this stage.

No, it isn’t. Not anymore. Nor will it be anytime soon.

Its market cap has been right-sized through this episode. Their loans will probably be called in at the end of the month giving it 8 more days before it becomes insolvent. Its profit was largely based on the accounts it has now declared fictitious. It’s loans / credit ratings / dividends and shareprice were all based on fake information. The credit agencies have already delisted it, and the CEO of one of it’s biggest lenders (hardly a regulatory poster child in its own right) has today said it is a shameful reflection on the German regulatory environment.

I don’t think you are looking hard enough, though that’s on the assumption that “what’s been announced” means by Wirecard. This article gives a brief overview of some of the accusations though you can also just Google Dan McCrum + Wirecard. https://www.marketscreener.com/WIRECARD-AG-454356/news/Wirecard-Attackers-Vindicated-30803834/

None of this is to suggest Curve is any kind of trouble despite cards still being issued by Wirecard - just to say you shouldn’t underplay the seriousness of what Wirecard has done (by their own admission today). Wirecard and BaFin threatened investigative journalists, market researchers and short sellers with lawsuits and criminal prosecution (i.e. Jail). It was this behaviour that allowed them to fake-it for years at a significant cost to any messenger or investor who believed in honest markets.

I’ll eat my hat if they survive the summer - the lawsuits that will follow will be unending. Short sellers priced out of positions, by fraud. Buy and Hold investors wiped out, by fraud. And that’s before you think about those threatened with jail.

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i will remember you if they make it.

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Happy to be held to it :-).

This isn’t banks in 2008. This Edit is more like Enron or /Edit any company that has said they are sitting on piles of cash when they aren’t.

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Any? So where is money from Curve Card balance?

Oh I forgot about that…I guess there might be some small change from the people who still use Curve Send hanging around somewhere I suppose :thinking:

I wonder how the cashback is treated. I’d have thought it would be treated the same as store credit - i.e. not actually customer money, just the option to redeem.

In any case Curve do have an eMoney licence with the FCA, so I would have thought that would be okay too.

I think that’s why you have points on curve card, not real currency

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@city_tom has rightly understood the context of the issues at hand with Wirecard. It’s about falsified finances for at least one fiscal year, possibly going back even further than that. Money has been lost into a black hole and the creditors of Wirecard are very likely going to pull the plug - if not all, then some. This has nothing to do with Lehman. This is a similar situation to Enron.

For the sake of clarity: none of my comments are to suggest that Curve has a direct, in-house issue. It’s however important that someone underlines the risks at hand for Curve end-users. And I won’t get started about us investors.

The problem is that the box office of your show might be shut and nobody will be able to attend the show. To get a new Curve card would become impossible for a while, as long as Curve doesn’t issue its own cards. It’s all lost business and a PR disaster. Or current cards may cease being accepted or transactional issues arise. That’s also a big financial risk. It’s not a clear cut situation, except for the fact that it’s perilous to any Wirecard associated companies, if their payment methods cease to work or you can’t issue new ones.

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Wirecard Update